Talk:Gunbai Barrier Technique
Unnecessary Since when it was stated that it was a jutsu?--Animefreak 55 (talk) 00:17, September 14, 2012 (UTC) yeah since when was making a barrier out of energy not considered a jutsu? it is a technique even a fool could tell that, so how can you say it isn't. it's a barrier that is a category of jutsu, get over it. (talk) 00:22, September 14, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan Since when is not a jutsu...you see him produce a chakra barrier from the gunbai...if somethings like a simple punch or kick can be considered a jutsu, so can this. Darksusanoo (talk) 00:32, September 14, 2012 (UTC) Madara obviously coated the gunbai with Susanoo... --OmegaRasengan (talk) 00:46, September 14, 2012 (UTC) But like what omegaRasengan said it's coated with susanoo. It cant be to hasty to declared that's a justu. It probably another ability with susanoo. No speculations at all but I say that more information is needed to fully say this is a justu.--Animefreak 55 (talk) 01:06, September 14, 2012 (UTC) :Did anyone saw the bones? An arm? A ribcage? Any of the signature characteristics of the Susanoo? For what reason would Madara coat the Gunbai with the Susanoo? The thing's appears to be more durable than the damn technique...All that appears is Madara's chakra and a wall, i repeat a wall...plus the only other explanation would be that Madara's Susanoo could weild a shild which never appeared on any of it's various forms. Darksusanoo (talk) 01:29, September 14, 2012 (UTC) ::The Chakra came from his body exactly as Susanoo would. And we've seen Susanoo chakra cover a user without forming bones. Just not quite as large. And If he was flowing chakra into his gunbai to do it, It was definitely Susanoo chakra he flowed through it. If this article is kept, Susanoo should be a parent. Also, I see no point in Madara using a barrier technique like that if he has "the defense more absolute" than Gaara's sand. So what I just said is the most logical conclusion. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 07:59, September 14, 2012 (UTC) :::http://images.wikia.com/naruto/images/b/bf/Madara_Gunbai%27s_Chakra.jpg Where the chakra is coming from? His body or Gunbai? MaskedManMadara (talk) 14:04, September 14, 2012 (UTC) Kinda on the fence with this one. Sure it can be Susanoo application but all that's there to back that up is the fact that Sasuke manifested the aura before (which by the way he, nor anyone else has ever used in this manner). Usually when they do the aura, body parts or the entire Susanoo appears immediately afterwards. With Madara's use, there was no definable body part anywhere to be see and the "shield" or whatever looks a bit deliberate and well formed (there's a side shot of him using it, it looks like a wall). So I'd lean more towards keeping this article, than lumping it with Susanoo, unless there's a part on Susanoo's body that's that flat, or mayhaps Madara's has a shield as well...--Cerez365™ (talk) 12:04, September 14, 2012 (UTC) :Has the raw for this chapter come out yet? Darksusanoo (talk) 16:06, September 14, 2012 (UTC) ::Yes. Omnibender - Talk - 17:36, September 14, 2012 (UTC) :::It's kinda obvious, it's just Susanoo...--[[User:TheUltimate3|'TheUltimate3']] (talk) 20:40, September 14, 2012 (UTC) ::::Why are all of you still thinking that is Susanoo!!? --MaskedManMadara (talk) 21:23, September 14, 2012 (UTC) And? Even if it WAS Susanoo, Susanoo is also a jutsu. So if he did "use" Susanoo, it would still be a jutsu with Susanoo being the "Parent" jutsu. So in the end, still a jutsu. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 06:17, September 15, 2012 (UTC) :If it's Susanoo it should be treated like Susanoo unless it's given a name or can be proven to be a derived jutsu. It's not the job of the wiki to be the writer of Naruto and invent justu. The simplest explanation should always be sought in favor of making something new up, otherwise it's speculation bordering on fanon. If in a new chapter it's proven to be something more than it seems then by all means make a page but being accurate is more important than being first. Arrancar79 (talk) 07:06, September 15, 2012 (UTC) Seriously, it might look like a susanoo wich i think too, but how do you know if it actually is, STOP SPECULATING! its useless, unless you've seen an arm or a ribcage or something, you got no evidence.--Charmanking2198 (talk) 08:30, September 15, 2012 (UTC) :Okay, how about the fact that Itachi generated the same aura when first using Susanoo and THEN formed the skeleton (ep 138). There's no evidence that bones MUST be formed immediately and with every use of Susanoo. Arrancar79 (talk) 08:59, September 15, 2012 (UTC) There is no evidence that it is susanoo either.--Charmanking2198 (talk) 09:34, September 15, 2012 (UTC) Maybe that Gunbai has some abilities like Hiramekarei from chojuro..shape manipulation at will-- (talk) 14:51, September 15, 2012 (UTC) @Arrancar79: Using an example from the anime to prove something from the manga is totally invalid. In the manga chapter, Itachi's Susanoo generates bones right off the bat, just like any other Susanoo. This technique does not use any bones or anything remotely resembling Susanoo save for the coloring style (which is also the same color, might I add, as many barrier techniques). Plus, as the picture linked above proves, the aura was around the gunbai. It is not Susanoo. Sorry. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 22:06, September 15, 2012 (UTC) :Proof that this is susanoo (note: will be referencing multiple pages, will be different number depending on where you read): 576, pgs 4-6. Sasuke starts susanoo, chakra aura forms before bones. When susanoo dissipates, bones disappear before chakra. 577, pg 12. Madara forms susanoo with just arm and sword, chakra surrounding him just like in 601. 578, pg 3. better picture of same moment. same chakra aura. 579, pg 9. Sasuke's susanoo dissipates, bones before chakra aura. 580 6-7. Itachi does same thing Madara did with just bone arm and chakra aura. And finally, for the item that proves it without a doubt. pg 9. Itachi has susanoo chakra aura, no bones of any sort, and is not dissipating the chakra in any sort of way. He maintains it in two panels. What does this prove? That susanoo chakra can be used without bones. This jutsu is susanoo. No ifs, ands or buts about it. He might be using the gunbai to flow the chakra into, but its susanoo chakra he's using for it. Either delete the article, or make susanoo a parent. (talk) 23:49, September 15, 2012 (UTC) Was me that made this comment, forgot to log in MangekyoSasuke (talk) 23:50, September 15, 2012 (UTC) :2nd edit: @MaskedManMadara, that's a picture of him dissipating the jutsu. That proves nothing except that he was flowing chakra through it.MangekyoSasuke (talk) 23:53, September 15, 2012 (UTC) :Okay, that's great and all, but that has nothing to do with anything we're talking about. The aura Susanoo has never been used for defense. Never been formed into a wall. Never been used without bones forming at some point. No matter where you cite it from, or who is using it, the technique always, I repeat, always forms bones. That's fine and dandy if you want to say "well Itachi manifests the aura too", however, on all those examples, a few panels or pages later, the bones manifest. The difference between that and this technique is that Madara activated AND ended the technique and NO bones were formed. None. Ziltch. Zero. Never has that been done in a Susanoo usage. Furthermore, it has never been channeled through another source, which Madara does with this Gunbai barrier. For example, Sasuke has never channeled Susanoo through his sword. Lastly, never before has Susanoo been used to cover two people. It only covers its user. Why, then, does this technique envelop both Madara and Obito? Perhaps, because it is a barrier? Therefore, until you can give the rest of us proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Susanoo has been used in this technique's application prior to this, than nothing other than Madara outright stating it (which I doubt will happen) or Kishimoto saying it in databook (also doubt this, but he might) will prove that this is Susanoo. It simply is not. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 00:32, September 16, 2012 (UTC) Another small detail, is that the defensive value of any Susanoo, no matter how individually powerful is proportionate to it's level of completion: a ribcage will be weaker than a full skeleton Susanoo, which in turn is weaker than a complete Susanoo, and so on. And never has a user used the simple aura of the Susanoo for defensive reasons (likely because of it's low to likely null defensive value), much less channel it through another medium, since it's redundant any way. The thing is that since Susanoo is a manifestation of the users chakra and in tha manga Madara's chakra is particullarly dark, i recon that's what's putting people on the fence...but together with what @Ten Tailed Fox said it's clear that the thing is it's own technique not a derivate of the Susanoo. Add the deliberate way of how Madara positioned his gunbai in a blocking position and how se still se chakra comming out of it after the wall had dissipated, it's pretty much a done deal. Darksusanoo (talk) 15:37, September 16, 2012 (UTC) This again In chapter 612, what for me is further evidence of this merely being an application of Susanoo was supplied. When the Allied Shinobi start their attack, Madara creates the barrier again to protect himself from a stray beam of the Storm Release. His gunbai is untouched, and the barrier just comes out of his body, following the motion of his outstretched arm. Omnibender - Talk - 00:10, December 6, 2012 (UTC) :Yeah it was Susanoo--Elveonora (talk) 01:07, December 6, 2012 (UTC) ::Yup.— :::Ummhmm. :) So, change? MangekyoSasuke (talk) 03:47, December 6, 2012 (UTC) Did any consider that he just used the Chakra Absorption jutsu and not the Gunbai Barrier Technique, I think it was a application of Susanoo when used in this jutsu's supposive first appearance but I'm pretty sure he used the Chakra Absorption jutsu in chapter 612 -- (talk) 04:09, December 6, 2012 (UTC) Preta Path barrier looks differently, this has "Susanoish" texture to it--Elveonora (talk) 06:50, December 6, 2012 (UTC) :At first I was convinced by your post Elveonora, but then I looked throught volume 58 and found evidence to show it might be the Preta Path jutsu, look on page 3 of chapter 551, the same flame effect showed up after Nagato absorbed Naruto's Rasengan.-- (talk) 09:47, December 6, 2012 (UTC) For some reason I thought this was Preta Path lol. I'm not really sure now about the barrier bit and it might just be an application of Susanoo. But at the same time, it kinda looks like what Nagato did but there's an aura around Madara's entire body. Meh, whatever you guys decide is fine with me.--Cerez365™ (talk) 16:05, December 6, 2012 (UTC) I thought it was obvious that the thing Madara used to protect himself was the Preta Path's ability. It didn't even look the same. (talk) 16:27, December 6, 2012 (UTC) Yhwach Preta Path vs Susanoo in 3, 2, 1... GO! Nah, make it a combination of both and leave it be ;D--Elveonora (talk) 22:32, December 6, 2012 (UTC) I wouldn't quite say this is the Preta Path technique. Despite looking similar, there was no sign of chakra absorption with the technique in chapter 612, which is the main purpose of the Preta Path. Regardless of it being Preta Path or Susanoo, I think either way this means that this article no longer has a purpose. Omnibender - Talk - 23:35, December 6, 2012 (UTC) It looks like he absorbed it to me, but he does have the Susanoo aura. But I agree this article isn't needed and can possibly be added as a use for Susanoo.-- (talk) 23:51, December 6, 2012 (UTC) Firstly, i too think this "Technique" is just an aplication of Susanoo. Secondly, Madara had the same barrier (thingy) that Nagato had when he absorbed Naruto's Rasengan, and he was indeed absorbing chakra it was just one of the Ranton beams. (talk) 23:56, December 6, 2012 (UTC) Yhwach I don't think that Susanoo aura alone would protect him... yeah, his Susanoo is durable as hell but a fully formed one still can be penetrated, so doesn't make sense to be this. That's why it's either: * Preta Path * Susanoo aura + Preta Path * something else we don't know "_" --Elveonora (talk) 01:31, December 7, 2012 (UTC) Not yet deleted? "_"--Elveonora (talk) 23:34, December 7, 2012 (UTC) :Well, anyone who wanted to protest about it had lots of time to do it. Omnibender - Talk - 22:47, December 21, 2012 (UTC) Well this is comming late since i didn't notice this debate was still going on and that the page was deleted. But i'll still add my 2 cents as before: first off why would this be a Susanoo aplication, it's a bit redundant to channel it through that weapon. We can see that as soon as Madara gets the gunbai, he uses a chakra flow, and positions the gunbai in a blocking position and then a dark coloured barrier shows up...by that standart it may be a variation of the Uchiha Battle Flame Encampment but again redundancy kicks in as in why channel it through the weapon? Second it had nothing to with the Preta Path. The Path absorbs chakra based attacks not physical ones, the barrier was used to block the giant stakes Naruto had just thrown at then, physical objects. And what the hell does chapter 612 have to do with any of this? In that chapter Madara used the Path's ability to absorb a wayward shot from the Storm Release: Laser Circus nothing more. And the "Susanoo-ish" texture is just the coloring of the page. My belief as before is that it's a barrier technique unique to the gunbai, rather than some far-fetched notion of being a Preta Path/Susanoo variation. Well let's see if when this is shown in the anime, it'll give reason or not. Darksusanoo (talk) 00:34, December 22, 2012 (UTC) Already gone so likely too late, but Darksusanoo is actually right and I'm changing my stance. It's first apparent appearance doesn't look much like Preta Path to me, and as stated, it was used against physical attacks. But that thing in 612 is clearly Preta Path. So we might as well discuss this further and perhaps restore it back?--Elveonora (talk) 01:29, December 22, 2012 (UTC) Susanoo again During Episode 344, Madara activates his Susanoo just before creating this barrier, should Susanoo be added as the parent technique, also should it be listed as trivia that his Susanoo is coloured purple like Sasuke's Susanoo instead of it's normal blue colour. TricksterKing (talk) 12:15, February 21, 2014 (UTC) :It wasn't Susanoo. They color it blue, just like in the manga--Elveonora (talk) 13:25, February 21, 2014 (UTC) ::And that's precisely Madara's Susanoo colour. Omnibender - Talk - 17:12, February 21, 2014 (UTC) :::Except as he said, the Susanoo-like chakra appeared purple and only then it changed into blue barrier. I guess we won't know until Kishi tells us--Elveonora (talk) 18:53, February 21, 2014 (UTC) Deletion The fourth databook gives no mention of what this page describes. Considering how similar it's appearance is to Susanoo (see above discussions), suggest assuming that's indeed what it is. ''~SnapperT '' :So it was Susanoo chakra flow or so after all--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 21:50, November 7, 2014 (UTC) ::Why not just place it as a variation of the Uchiha Return or something? Yatanogarasu (Talk) 21:49, November 16, 2014 (UTC) :::Because it doesn't "return" anything and looks like Susanoo? ''~SnapperT '' 05:50, November 17, 2014 (UTC)